Can someone help me diagnose a potential problem?

"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform) 08/07/2017 at 20:03 • Filed to: None

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It’s the automatic transmission (I know).

It only happened once, but I don’t want to brush it aside. I was accelerating from a green light. When the car was shifting from 1st to 2nd, it took a while to actually change. I noticed the revs rise as if I were in neutral. Eventually it chose 2nd gear.

I can’t re-create the problem. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong? I don’t want to take it to a dealership mechanic because they won’t be truthful with me. I don’t want to take it to an indy mechanic because of the same reason. I hope it isn’t impending transmission failure.

(If it helps, I just changed the AT fluid about a month ago with Honda Genuine ATF-DW1. The old fluid wasn’t burnt)

My citroen won't start > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 20:11

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Recreation of what is happening inside your gearbox

Also, there was a transmission related recall for 2003-2004 cars.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 20:12

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Sometimes computers get confused. If it doesn’t keep happening I wouldn’t worry.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 20:13

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Could be low fluid. If it’s a traditional auto, it’ll also slip a lot more between gears than modern fast-lockup trannies, which is one of the reasons we call them “slushboxes”.

If this was a passing gear drop, I’d tell you it’s normal, but it isn’t.

I’ve seen this with some other autos as well that have nothing else wrong - hesitation when moving from first to second for some reason. Never could isolate a cause and neither could dealership service departments.

OPPOsaurus WRX > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 20:14

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deekster_caddy > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 20:16

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Could have been an eco-mode kind of thing? I wouldn’t worry about it unless it throws a code. Good news is that transmissions will store codes in history so if it repeats and it is actually a fault, it should throw an error code for long shift time. There are a lot of strange situational type things built into the programming that you might never expect. Without knowing a lot more it’s hard to make a guess on this kind of issue.

On the programming thing - my wife had an ‘00 Saturn SL2 with an auto. One time I was driving it down a large hill and dragging the brakes, when it upshifted all by itself and held the higher gear, engine braking, until we reached the bottom of the hill. I was driving and I am very aware of these things. The shifter was still in D and I was able to take my foot off the brake for the whole descent. I was quite surprised. I tried and tried and tried some more and was never able to make it happen again - I hit just the right set of parameters to make it work.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > OPPOsaurus WRX 08/07/2017 at 20:20

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Charlie don’t surf.

TheHondaBro > My citroen won't start 08/07/2017 at 20:21

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Must’ve already happened. There are no outstanding recalls for it.

TheHondaBro > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/07/2017 at 20:23

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I’ll check the fluid level when it cools down a little more. Luckily I still have a sliver of fluid left.

My citroen won't start > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) 08/07/2017 at 20:24

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That’s a good one

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 20:41

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Typically flaring (what’s occurring here) is a sign of impending transmission issues. Buuuuut, if it only happened once and not again since I wouldn’t think too much of it, the TCM could’ve had a moment.

Now, if it starts doing it often, the sooner you can get it to a mechanic to diagnose it, the better. Find a dealer you can trust.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 20:44

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manual swap is happening

TheHondaBro > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 08/07/2017 at 20:49

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I’d do a 3.5+AT swap before a manual swap.

brianbrannon > TheHondaBro 08/07/2017 at 21:04

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Nobody can diagnose a problem that can’t be repeated. Also if you post what kind of car it is it makes a big difference in diagnosing

TheHondaBro > brianbrannon 08/07/2017 at 21:07

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2004 Honda Accord V6 5AT.

No outstanding recalls.

His Stigness > TheHondaBro 08/08/2017 at 00:13

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I agree with theTurbochargedSquirrel and sometimes the computers get confused and do weird shit sometimes. My Mercedes has done it once or twice in the last 30k miles. I have never worried about it because the trans module can be really stupid sometimes.

I know Honda’s are prone to problems, but unless it starts to happen with increased frequency I would not worry about it.

Now, having said all of that, how did the fluid look when you changed it? I know you said it wasn’t burnt, but did it look like shit? Do you have any idea how long it had been in there? I am no expert on Honda’s (sort of on purpose), but on a conventional trans with clutch packs, as the trans wears but no service is ever done, changing the fluid will actually do more harm than good. My general rule of thumb is that I never say change the fluid if it hasn’t been done in the past 100-125k miles (notoriously crappy transmissions get a lower number). The reason behind this is because as the clutch packs wear, that material becomes suspended in the fluid. But when you flush all that material out and replace it with new fluid with fresh detergents which can further strip away material (built up crap) then you will most likely have transmissions problems after, including slipping. And if the transmission was already stripping you will make it worse by changing out the fluid.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheHondaBro 08/08/2017 at 00:20

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There are some good answers in the comments here. But I have a question for you. Why do you think a mechanic won’t be truthful with you? In what way?

TheHondaBro > His Stigness 08/08/2017 at 00:22

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The fluid looked old, but it wasn’t black, just a dark red. Admittedly, it was in there a little bit longer than it was supposed to be, but it’s also a low-mileage car for its age (supposed to be around 130,000 but it’s actually at ~118,000). If anything, after changing the fluid it shifted a lot smoother.

I’m willing to admit that, if the transmission does go out, that it was my negligence with the fluid that caused it. But that drive consisted of a lot of stop-and-go city traffic on rough, pock-marked roads. The module getting confused and acting up is probably what happened. I hope that it’s just the transmission module. I’ll monitor it closely.

TheHondaBro > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 08/08/2017 at 00:30

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I’ve been taken advantage of twice by two different dealerships. Luckily it didn’t result in anything other than my realization of what they were trying to do. One dealership tried to tell me that my spark plugs and coolant hoses were bad. That was 20,000 miles ago. I’m still on the same coolant hoses and the spark plugs looked fine when I changed them.

Another instance happened about a year ago. Went in for P/S whine and they tried to tell me that my rack and pump were bad. Again, those were fine and they still are.

A dealership mechanic is the last place I want to take it.

Regarding indy mechanics, I’m weary of the same issue. If anything, dealership mechanics have a brand image to maintain. Indy mechanics are just looking out for themselves. Sure, I have no experience with indy mechanics, but that doesn’t mean I have to intrinsically trust them.

I’m more comfortable diagnosing it myself and asking other car owners before going to mechanics. At least then I’ll know what I’m talking about and can protect myself from being tricked.

brianbrannon > TheHondaBro 08/08/2017 at 00:59

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I used to be a Honda tech. It may have just been a glitch but we replaced lots of v6 trannys 

TheHondaBro > brianbrannon 08/08/2017 at 01:00

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Mine was replaced a long time ago, so theoretically the transmission should be fine.

His Stigness > TheHondaBro 08/08/2017 at 01:05

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At that many miles I wouldn’t be too concerned about anything. Even if it happens again I wouldn’t worry about. You need to wait for quick succession events. Otherwise you risk throwing parts at it and wasting money.

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > TheHondaBro 08/08/2017 at 01:12

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I’m no expert on automatics, but I know the older Accord autos had a speed sensor in the tranny that was somewhat of a recurring problem and would cause erratic shifts.

So if it get’s worse I’d replace that before anything else.

TheHondaBro > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 08/08/2017 at 01:34

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I’ll have to look into that. If it’s inexpensive I might just replace it for shits and giggles. Thanks.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > TheHondaBro 08/08/2017 at 02:33

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The spark plug recommendation was probably based on time and mileage (per manufacturer recommendations perhaps?). Or the service advisor was incorrectly relaying information from the tech.

As far as the hoses go, some shops recommend them based on time and mileage too (but I’m not saying that’s the right thing to do necessarily, especially for hoses). More likely it was a young tech who didn’t know any better and was earnestly overzealous.

What ended up being the issue with your steering noise? That was more than likely a lazy or subpar tech with a shit diagnosis trying to shotgun it. Not good by any means, but probably not trying to screw you as much as save his own ass from his own inability to properly diagnose the problem.

I’m not saying you’re wrong and that they didn’t try to cheat you. I wasn’t there. I’m just saying it’s unlikely that’s what was going on, based on all the people I know in the industry. On the whole, we’re decent people who want to help our clients. There are shady mechanics out there, for sure, but they’re not as common as the internet makes it seem.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, if you’re not sure about what the person behind the desk is telling you, ask to talk to the tech. Take some time to mull over what he says. Relay that to us on here if you want. But be careful about the information you get from noon-mechanics too. I’ve seen and heard them spout blatantly wrong and potentially dangerous information to DIY she tree mechanics.

If you have any questions or need any help just ask. I don’t know much about Hondas, but I can almost certainly offer guidance.

brianbrannon > TheHondaBro 08/08/2017 at 16:31

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They didn’t make the replacements any better. I did three on the same van in two years